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Irish road infoboxes

I'd like to improve the "major junctions" sections of the infobox road template used for Irish road articles. At the moment, the particular exit and route number is displayed on its own (see for example M50 motorway (Ireland)), which I think isn't ideal for accessibility reasons. So I'm wondering if we should adopt the UK practice (see for example M25 motorway), which shows exit and motorway numbers followed by text, or the US practice (see the example given in the infobox documentation), which uses Template:jct for the route numbers (used also in the junction lists), but no exit numbers are shown.

Asking here as according to the template documentation:

• junction: a list of major junctions. Each WikiProject has different standards for major junctions, so consult the relevant WikiProject for more details.

Thanks in advance. EthanL13 | talk 13:13, 22 January 2025 (UTC)

Anyone? EthanL13 | talk 19:04, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

Describing Dublin's suburban/commuter towns

It possibly hasn't escaped the attention of WikiProject members, but there's an ongoing series of edits (all effectively by the same [Virgin Media ISP customer] IP contributor) to change the descriptions of Dublin's suburban/commuter towns and villages. Some of these changes seem, at best, inconsistent: Where administratively distinct county towns like Dun Laoghaire and Swords become just "suburbs", and administratively/geographically separated villages like Newcastle also become "suburbs", while areas at least partially within the Dublin City Council area like Chapelizod become "towns".

While I'm conscious that these inconsistencies are potential indicators of a disruptive intent, and assuming good faith instead, I wonder if there are thoughts on how to address. Building on past discussion (and resulting consensus) on using council dev plan "settlement hierarchy" classifications to distinguish a "town" from a "village", I wonder if there any similar thoughts/suggestions on differentiating "suburb" from "suburb (village core") from "suburban town" from "commuter town"? Or should it just be case=by-case? With the onus on the changing editor to justify? Guliolopez (talk) 09:45, 28 February 2025 (UTC)

In terms of inconsistency, I might note a series of edits (made in quick succession by the same IP contributor) where Portmarnock and Adamstown become "suburbs", while Malahide becomes a "town".

While some of these edits were reverted by WikiProject members, the Adamstown lead still says "suburb" (with no qualifier to clarify that it is geographically/administratively separate from the city and therefore different from more "urban" suburbs like Foxrock or Clonskeagh or whatever). This, to me, stands in contrast to my own understanding. As Adamstown is, notably IMO, a "planned town". And generally described as such. (Irish Times - "planned town", Irish Independent - "planned town", Irish Times - "new town", Irish Independent - "new town", BBC - "new town", Irish Examiner - "first new town", etc. )

Are there other thoughts? If not, I suppose "case by case" (reference based) is probably the way to go? Guliolopez (talk) 10:22, 28 February 2025 (UTC)

Even assuming good faith, my inclination is to simply revert. While there's nothing wrong with taking the opportunity of disruption to reassess terminology, in this instance, I'd favour the collective wisdom of Wikipedia editors over the years, some of whom have done good work on histories of settlements in Ireland, however described. So yes, the burden should be on the changing editor to justify, especially where they are doing so at scale, possibly in good faith but mistaken understanding of the relationship between these towns and the metropolis of Dublin city centre. Iveagh Gardens (talk) 12:22, 2 March 2025 (UTC)

Thanks @Iveagh Gardens. As it happens, whether my opening this thread was causal or coincidental, the contributor(s) engaging in this stuff have since increased the related pattern of edits. As ser! and others will be aware. While (as you note) this "disruption" has prompted some review and improvement on the terminology in several articles (and, for example, I am now more than satisfied that there's sufficient reliable/"quality" sources to describe Chapelizod as a "suburban village"), in other cases the disruption continues. I'm happy to continue (conscious of 3RR and OWN and indeed DFTT) reverting the most clearly disruptive/unhelpful changes - but remain interested in other thoughts/input. ANI and PP are, of course, always an option. Anyway, thanks for the input... Guliolopez (talk) 17:43, 2 March 2025 (UTC)

I'd agree with this approach. WP:CON and WP:ONUS would apply. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 14:52, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

FYI. While I opened threads at Talk:Adamstown, Dublin, Talk:Lucan, Dublin and Talk:Chapelizod to highlight concerns with the recent anon edits (hopefully all now addressed), the pattern continues on other articles. Including at Chapelizod where the (same?) anon/anons continue to make entirely inconsistent edits. Including wavering dramatically between "suburb" and "town". Just FYI. Guliolopez (talk) 13:57, 15 March 2025 (UTC)

Still ongoing. Any remaining assumption of "good faith", on my part, is completely faded. Not least as places as distant/separate from the city as Lusk are being changed from "village/town" to "suburb". And the Liberties also become just another "suburb". I hate to say it, but either WP:CIR or WP:DE/trolling apply here. Or possibly both. WP:DENYing from now on. Not wasting my time reasoning with the unreasonable. Guliolopez (talk) 17:57, 16 March 2025 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Pretty Polly Stakes (Ireland)#Requested move 21 February 2025

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Pretty Polly Stakes (Ireland)#Requested move 21 February 2025 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Sophisticatedevening ^(talk) 14:09, 28 February 2025 (UTC)

FAR notice

I have nominated James Nesbitt for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" in regards to the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 05:09, 3 March 2025 (UTC)

The European Destubathon

All WP:Ireland members are invited to participate in The European Destubathon in April. Primary objective: Blast away as many of our 760,000+ Euro stubs as possible! Around £2300 available in Amazon voucher prizes which can be used to buy books for content, though it can also be treated as an editathon if you're not interested in competing! Minimum content to be added to each article just to ensure that they're over a stub, though longer expansions also welcome. A good chance to earn a few hundred for expanding many of our Ireland and European stubs. Previous contests were really enjoyable and I'm hoping this one will be too and help benefit the Ireland project too! Sign up if interested. Thanks! ♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:37, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

Commons image files up for deletion

An editor has nominated around a dozen images for deletion, on the grounds that 'Similar to the UK, Freedom of Panorama does not apply in Ireland', which would seem to be contradicted by the Commons page on the subject. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 14:48, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

The first point of COM:FOP Ireland states that, similar to the UK, Irish Freedom of Panorama only applies to buildings and 3d works of art (e.g. statues), not to 2d works like paintings and photos. Consigned (talk) 13:20, 15 March 2025 (UTC)

Hi Consigned. As COM:FOP Ireland states, Freedom of Panorama is:

OK for 3D works

OK for 2D "works of artistic craftsmanship"

and it then goes on to state:

The copyright in a work to which this section applies is not infringed by (a) making a painting, drawing, diagram, map, chart, plan, engraving, etching, lithograph, woodcut, print or similar thing representing it, (b) making a photograph or film of it, or (c) broadcasting or including in a cable programme service, an image of it.[28/2000 Sec.93(2)]

So I'm really not seeing what the issue is. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 11:01, 26 March 2025 (UTC)

Naming convention for places in County Dublin

I've proposed a change to the naming convention for places in County Dublin at Talk:Adamstown, Dublin, which I think is in line with MOS:IRISHCOUNTIES. Iveagh Gardens (talk) 12:01, 16 March 2025 (UTC)

Moving the conversation to this general discussion area. In general, the style guide at MOS:IRISHCOUNTIES reads "Use the full county name (i.e., County X) when referring to counties, rather than abbreviating to the short name (i.e., X)". However, in the case of most settlements in Dublin, the articles are titled Y, Dublin, rather than Y, County Dublin. I posited that this makes sense for those in the city itself, but beyond that, County Dublin should be in the article title. A similar distinction is found in Douglas, Cork vs Mallow, County Cork. I do think it is helpful for article titles to make this distinction. As there was not a clear consensus for a proposal based on the administrative city, I've included it among three proposals for discussion.

• Administrative divide: as initially proposed. Advantage: follows a legal distinction. Disadvantage: may not reflect changing population development and the fact that cities in practice spread beyond that governed by a city council.
• Population divide: places outside the jurisdiction of the city council but part of urban base of the city should retain the Y, Dublin format, whereas somewhere further out should be retitled, e.g., Naul, County Dublin for the Naul. This has an objective reference in the CSO map of urban areas.
• Postcode divide: places within the Dublin postcode system should retain the Y, Dublin format, whereas places with County Dublin in their postal address, see e.g., Blackrock should be moved to Blackrock, County Dublin. This has the advantage of matching WP:COMMONNAME.

I'm tagging ww2censor, Bastun, Sarah777, Amakuru and Financefactz as participants in the earlier discussion. FWIW, I might now be more inclined towards the postcode divide, as it does reflect common usage. Although County Dublin is not an administrative entity, it is used officially in addresses, so remains a geographic term. It is also very occasionally used administratively, such as the Dublin County Returning Officer, so it's non-existence can be over-stated. Iveagh Gardens (talk) 07:55, 26 March 2025 (UTC)

Support: That sounds like a reasonable compromise. It also supports common usage to an extent - as mentioned, most people would say "Blackrock, County Dublin" and "Sandyford, Dublin 18" or "Sandyford in Dublin". Common usage is largely based on the pre-eircode address system. Think "Donnybrook, Dublin 4". Having said that I prefer the system as it is - but I agree that "Naul, Dublin" is out of synch with common usage and could be misleading - though I remain unconvinced that Admastown is any problem at all as it contiguous part of the built-up area. Sarah777 (talk) 09:05, 26 March 2025 (UTC)

Addendum - I suppose one risk with the "dual system" is that marginal cases, suburbs that were separate but are recently contiguous such as Newcastle, Dublin or Rathcoole, Dublin could become controversial. We might need to agree on a list of what's in and what's out. Sarah777 (talk) 17:05, 26 March 2025 (UTC)

What is a List class?

I came across [1] while updating the IrlProj table. Is this article a list - or more? Sarah777 (talk) 17:17, 26 March 2025 (UTC)